“Talking Heads” Jenny Mosley as hot seat special guest - March 2002
Sun, May 5th 2002
Jenny Mosley was a “Special Guest” on ‘Talking Heads’ which forms a key part of the National College for School Leadership from 11 - 25th March 2002
Jenny Mosley was a “Special Guest” on ‘Talking Heads’ which forms a key part of the National College for School Leadership
05-MAR-2002 08:00 PM
1. Thank you Jenny - many of your ideas have formed the basis of transforming our former 'failing' school and building self esteem, positive behaviour and a 'can do' ethos. I am now concerned about the staff and looking for ways of ensuring their well being. What should I be doing to ensure this?
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002-11.21 AM
You are absolutely right to be concerned! (firstly, though thank you for your encouragement)..we believe that raising staff self-esteem and morale is the key to unlocking a schools potential. If you look at my model - it's given top priority and on our training days, we devote a lot of time to team-building. I suggest to all headteachers that they need to establish circle time for some staff meetings. It is essential that the same ethos that teachers are trying to promote in their classrooms ie. valuing, empathy and problem solving permeate selected staff meetings that carry the theme of "what can we do to cheer ourselves up". Once staff get used to sitting in a circle with a round of "One thing that went well this week" and/or "one thing I need help with" - if the ground-rules have been established first with all the staff and are kept to - then the ethos becomes safe enough to explore more fragile issues such as 'how we can find different ways of responding to children' - 'building relationships' - 'supporting each other without being judgmental' etc etc I don't initially say to staff that we are using these meetings "to do team-building" as this puts them off and raises to much alarm. Initially we structure staff meetings with specific topics. In Turn Your School Round pages 48 - 71 - I concentrate on circle meetings for staff. if these were run in the safe structured way that I suggest they would create a safe foundation on which to build other staff meetings where there is no agenda and it is about feelings. All research shows that teachers with low self-esteem can fall in to the usual low self-esteem patterns of nagging, irritability etc - teachers with sound self-esteem (and that doesn't mean that they are arrogant or 'pushy' - it just means that they keep life in perspective and don't get overwhelmed by difficult days - are then able to find the energy to boost the self-esteem of others. If we don't look after ourselves, or we fail to treat each other with respect - teachers will begin to burn out - you can't keep on 'giving out' if you don't 'put back in'. What we say on our courses is that we must be careful with the language we use with each other. As language can build courage and energy or it can demoralise with its flinty sharpness. I hope that this helps.
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05-MAR-2002 08:20 PM
2. Hi, think this is a good question as we should be moving forward. I agree it is too easy to slip into unchallenging mode! Should we be doing circle time for staff to engage with the more difficult questions for the management team?
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002 11:34 AM
Hi, I hope you like the above answer as well. I believe that 'challenge' is a healthy and positive mode - but it won't work if classrooms or staff rooms lack emotional safety first. It's best to build up safe experiences for staff first by talking in a circle, about issues to do with children, rather than focusing on themselves straight away. As we get more comfortable with each other and we trust people to keep to the ground rules (one of which I include is ' no moan without a suggestion for change!) and another is - 'to take responsibility for whether we contribute or not'. So, just like circle time for pupils - circle time for staff must have its own agreed ground rules to ensure that at all times we interact respectfully with each other. Good luck!
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05-MAR-2002 08:20 PM
3. Welcome to the Hotseat Jenny and thank you. I am Head of a very small (90 pupils) school in a rural area of Hampshire. We are involved in the Healthy Schools Partnership and one of our areas of focus is Emotional Health and Well Being. Circle time is used throughout the school and I feel we have very good relationships all round. As a result I often find when I am working with my Year 5/6 class, they want to turn the Circle Time topic into a general discussion. Is this OK or should I restrict them and stick to the rules, perhaps allowing more general discussion afterwards?
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002 11:48 AM
Thank you …... Before I move into your question - just as an aside, I would like to say to Heads of small schools that depending on the number I will often, once a month, do a family circle where we bring the whole school together. You have 90 - it would be possible to do a key stage 1 cycle and a key stage 2 cycle - with 45 in each. I know it sounds huge numbers for circle time - but as their relationships and behaviour quickly effect each other - they need to have a sense of team building which is what circle time is. I wouldn't advocate it every week - but at least once a half term if possible. This brings me to your real question - regarding the structure of circle time - We are very concerned about
some of the circles that we see and hear about in different schools. For example, some schools only have circle time when there has been a fight in the playground or another problem - the children like circle time so much - that they hype up their fights to get more circle time! Some teachers just sit around and have a chat - some Ofsted inspectors see a circle of chairs and think that this must be a positive strategy - not necessarily. I believe that circle time should have structure and rigour we advocate a particular 5 Step Model which takes pupils through different stages in the discussion and is an emotionally safe structure. If we are not careful sometimes the discussion becomes so intense that we forget the time and the bell goes. Then children go out without being emotionally ready for the next stage of the day. We bring children down 2 steps - away from what we call 'open forum' so that they are calm, positive and ready for whatever is next on their agenda. We do have what's called a circle time suggestion box - so any pupil can put in, anonymously, any suggestions they want talked about in circle time. We then structure these into our 5 Step lesson plan - so they still feel that their ideas are shaping discussion. I hope this helps - at other times you may well want to move into a general discussion - but not within the type of circle time I am suggesting above. Just for your interest, you may want to know that this model was featured in the healthy schools partnership newsletters both in primary and in secondary.
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05-MAR-2002 08:35 PM
4. Jenny, your presence has lured me back to talking heads! I'm head of a smallish (140) primary which has quite literally "turned round" largely due to the ethos developed through talking and listening, and due in no small part to your inspiration (god I sound a real creep!) there is a question however- we are looking towards implementing a strategy of peer mediation as a step on from circle time- what are your thoughts/suggestions? Thanks
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002 12:00 PM
Don't worry ……., I love people who creep to me - they are obviously intelligent people!!! I am thrilled that you see 'peer mediation' as being "a step on from circle time". We have a lot of concerns (I have a big team now of consultants who go into hundreds of schools) that many Heads are grabbing the idea of peer mediation and school councils and putting it in to their school without having the right framework. We do courses on peer mediation but only once the school has got the full model in place. For example, if a school has not worked really hard on their lunchtime policy and there are still children who are bored and restless - and in comes peer mediation - then they learn that, often their bad behaviour is rewarded by concerned listening faces. A school needs to earn its right to peer mediation by first of all making sure that they have, in place three pro-active listening systems for all children, and then they have playground friends (a trained group of pupils who meet weekly with a teacher) a very sound lunchtime policy ... and only when this system is in place will peer mediation flourish. Just to be a 'creep' back - we have written a new book called 'All Year Round' - exciting ideas for peaceful playtimes - which outlines what a happy playtime would look like and help staff consider the best type of peer mediation strategy to move forward with. The overview of the systemic approach is on page 32 of QCT in the Primary School and page 12 in QCT in the Secondary School; we would want this spine in a school first before they moved on to school councils and peer mediation. So go for the whole school approach in circle time in its fuller sense and then, as you say, move on once you have reviewed this progress.
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05-MAR-2002 10:34 PM
5. Welcome Jenny. Like many other contributors I am already a convert to Circle Time and have a firm belief that you raise standards by raising self esteem. I do have some small doubts though creeping in about rewards especially after having read Punishment by Rewards. I want the self esteem of the children, staff and parents to develop from within and so we have stopped giving stickers, smiley faces etc. instead we encourage children to put themselves forward by saying what they are good at and how proud they are of themselves. One member of staff has suggested that Golden Time is a reward and as such should be stopped. I agree that it is an entitlement! I'd like to hear any comments you may have on this.
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002 12:13 PM
Dear … I am loving this hot seat as I keep meeting old friends. There is a huge debate about extrinsic and intrinsic awards. I do not subscribe to the theory that extrinsic rewards prevent children from moving towards inner locus of control; I believe they create the right ethos in which children can move towards esteeming their own work and relationships. In an early book I wrote about how children should be encouraged during circle time to bring to the circle any piece of work that they wished to award themselves a special dot - or they could draw a picture of a behaviour that they had engaged in which they were proud of - as long as they could justify their choice they were entitled to receive their own special reward. But more importantly than this - on step 4 of the 5 Step Circle Time model, we have a script for teachers to encourage children to nominate other children who are very calm, create a lovely working atmosphere by not shouting out, are learning to walk away from fights etc. etc. Once they are nominated, if the majority of the class agrees (which they 95% of the time always do) the whole class signs something called a 'Class Team Honors Certificate'. These rewards etc. are on page 44 - 46 of the book called Photcopiable Materials for Use With the JENNY MOSLEY Circle Time Model (1995). If the child, or the class don't feel they quite deserve the certificate yet, the child places him/herself on the achievement ladder at what they feel is the appropriate rung. Golden Time is a different issue, it shouldn't be earnt - the children should walk in shining with it on a Monday morning because the whole school trusts them to keep to the Golden Rules. In this way every 'middle plodder child' receives their just entitlement. It is an entitlement because, as I explain to the children - if they keep to the Golden Rules, they save the teacher and the mid day supervisor so much time, that it is only fair that they are allowed to enjoy that time by celebrating together once a week. There are some complicated issues in all of this and, as ever, not quite enough time or space to answer in depth, but I really hope I've helped
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05-MAR-2002 11:44 PM
6. Hello Jenny. We met a long time ago in a school in Salisbury and I remember distinctly you telling us the importance of just 'listening'. The one thing that really stayed with me was your 'peer listening meeting' for heads of year who are often overloaded physically and emotionally - (30 mins for you, and I'll listen, and another time in the week when I have 30 minutes when you will listen to me). I am currently head of a large school -(1500)- where circle time and time for listening do not exist. It is a school that is large and extremely complicated (including split site) and where communication is something we need to improve significantly. I would be interested to learn what things work in such a large school. Think big, start small? What works best in the first instance? Special tips to get started?
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002 12:53 PM
Hi ……, I remember those early days in Wiltshire - the first courses I did on listening were in 1986 - doesn't time fly when you are having fun(!!!) Think big, start small is an excellent maxim - I love the quote from Mother Therese (although I am saying it clumsily( I cannot do great things! I can only do small things with great love. Large comprehensives are my emotional Waterloo - it is so difficult to get whole school approaches working. As you and I know, I have been working with secondary schools now since the late 80's and I have become very pragmatic. Firstly, if you want to put listening systems such as circle time in for your pupils - I would start with the year 7 tutor team. I would train them up, get them to visit the year 6's in their primary school for a circle time on how they feel about moving up (this helps the tutors to see the importance of bridging the circles). Train the team properly and then, in five years there is more hope that you can turn the school around as these pupils will have come up through a respectful listening ethos. It is too hard for some teachers to be asked to take these ideas back to a recalcitrant year 9 class. But this is not really answering your question. It's a huge, huge issue. But you are right - you do need the vision and then an idea of what Tiny achievable tickable targets, may take you towards that vision. I believe you need to commit to good inset training and make this approach a huge priority. Peer listening - which I teach still to Headteachers and Heads of Year, will help these members of staff and if they are feeling listened to, they will more likely to see the value of listening to children. But its all about training people in the right skills - people can listen badly - my own children can say to me "stop putting on that listening face - and listen properly!" If senior management can be brought on to share your vision, there is real hope. However, before you can bring in listening systems for staff and pupils (peer listening for the one to one system an circle time for the group listening system) You need to make sure that other systems - such as your rules, rewards, sanctions and lunchtime systems have been overhauled and checked for 'emotional safety' - otherwise, as some pupils said to me recently "we're fed up with your circle time - everyone's listening to us - but no one is doing anything about it"!!
There is no point in children speaking up each week about the fact they get hit by the football or whatever, if the school is not working on their lunchtime policy with the help of the school council. So, as we keep on peeling the layers of the onions back - the picture gets deeper. You are the one who would most need a skilled listener on a weekly basis - just to keep your energy and morale going - and to help you make sure you don't lose the vision. This is not a plug - but seriously - you would need some excellent training for all aspects of the ideas and strategies I have touched on. It needs to be done by consultants who are prepared to demonstrate the approach with pupils with staff observing - and with staff themselves so they can feel the benefit. Secondary teachers are tired and sometimes cynical - their trainers must have 'street cred'!! The other key issue is that we do a lot of work in secondary schools - but it can get lost if the school fails to review the initiatives regularly. Without review, everything falls down. I feel sure, Fiona, that you know all the above and I have not told you anything new - but my heart is with you on it as it's a big mountain -(the book Quality Circle Time in the Secondary School, may give you some support, but a listening ear would be better. Forgive yet another metaphor and adage but I also love this quote from Nelson Mandella - " A vision without action is just a dream, Action without vision just passes the time, Vision with a small action can change the world." Good luck - good luck - good luck.
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06-MAR-2002 11:07 AM
7. Hello Jenny, Having used Circle time and other ideas successfully in another school, I have moved and now have a much lower base to start from. My problem is that prior to my arrival, circle time has been haphazardly introduced as a quick-fix with little understanding or consideration of the key purposes. How would you suggest I proceed?
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002 01:10 PM
…… - your 'story of haphazard circle time' is a familiar one across the country. Even some of my best schools have become haphazard as staff have left and new staff replaced them without the infrastructure or training to come on board, alongside the others. You would need to organise some whole school training. We take, on a training day, all the teachers, assistants, mid day supervisors, and admin staff to try and help them all share the same vision of a respectful listening school. They also need a vision that this model is a 5 year model and only with care can you proceed from one level to another. Once you have all had the training, then you need to time table certain teachers, who are very enthusiastic, confident and skilled to go and support other teachers in different classrooms. You need a co-ordinator for each level of the model ie. your PSHE co-ordinator needs to supervise and monitor circle time - you need a working part for the regards, sanctions and rules and another teacher each term to act as a lunchtime co-ordinator. I hope this helps - but I agree totally that lots of people have latched on to circle time as a quick fix which will only cause them a back lash later one. One tip - you do need to use accredited trainers as some of the training on my model has been given by people who have never attended any of my days - consequently there is too much dilution and pollution!! All our schools are able to cover their costs as they either go in as a cluster to buy training or they host training in their own school and sell places to teachers or mid day supervisors from other schools. Good luck
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06-MAR-2002 11:41 AM
8. Hello, Jenny. Like …. I have come back to TH especially to find you! We have been using Circle Time and Peer Mediation for some time, and the comment from Lorna (above) has struck a chord with me. I am concerned both about the possibility of overusing rewards and also about ensuring that some children (often the 'middle' ones), who are sometimes a little overlooked despite our best efforts, receive adequate recognition. We use structured reward systems with our more challenging children and it is often difficult for other children (and their parents) to understand the reasons behind these and to appreciate that some children need help and support in learning how to behave in the same way as other children need help with reading or maths. Because the behaviour of these more challenging children is so public and visible, then their rewards can be too. Although their peers are generally supportive and often involved in setting up and sharing the rewards themselves, there are occasions when being convincing about fairness is hard. I'd really appreciate your comments - thanks.
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002 01:28 PM
Dear ……- I hope my answers above will answer some of your questions. Those headteachers who have worked with myself or my team and are using Golden Time properly (and many schools aren't - as it has become a bit of old rusty time at the end of a Friday afternoon when a teacher marks her books)!! - will tell you that Golden Time if it follows our precise recommendations can meet the needs of all 'middle plodder children' i.e. all the children who may not distinguish themselves through particular academic efforts or particular behaviour, but merely, every day do something very wonderful which is just to keep to the rules of the school. In fact they create the ethos of the school in which everyone may flourish. This is why we promote Golden Time - as every child walks in on a Monday morning sparkling with it. They don't have to earn it - they merely have to keep the Golden Rules - and then the teacher doesn't have to remember who they are (as she/he will only have kept a list of the ones who have lost it). Therefore, all the others must have kept the rules and then Golden Time must be golden. Any child who does not lose Golden Time automatically receives a Golden Time certificate sent home to their parents or carers. In this way the message of the school is that 'we value all our middle children and celebrate them loudly' (you can now get the pads of golden time certificates and these save the teacher a lot of time and trouble). Your difficult unhappy children may well receive other Golden Leaves stickers, badges etc. but they will not be able to earn the Golden Certificate as that is only for children who keep the Golden Rules every day. I hope this helps.
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06-MAR-2002 11:20 PM
9. Hi Jenny, Sorry second question already. Do you think that the effective use of circle time methods and the raising of self esteem in children depends on the self esteem of the adults. If they are the "walking wounded" themselves, how do they deal with the needs of the children?
JENNY MOSLEY 11-MAR-2002 01:32 PM
……, if the other answers I gave concerning staff self esteem doesn't quite answer your question, I am quite happy to talk a bit more about the subject. We do help staff, on the training days, construct their own personal care plan to help them try and keep some balance between their home and work life. If people constantly work too late, and have no boundaries between home and work, then they will become exhausted. The first staff meeting in a term that we take is on the above energy plan. We cannot do for others what we are not doing for ourselves, ie. we can't raise self esteem if we are ignoring our own needs. It is vital we spend time and money on ourselves!
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08-MAR-2002 05:49 PM
10. I have just launched the school council and it's working well. As a new head I know the school has had training in Circle Time and was hoping they might use that time for Class Council work. Should they or should it be separate? Also how can I softly softly monitor circle time as it is without intruding on the special atmosphere and confidentiality that allows it to be successful? I'm not sure that all staff are operating it in the way I would prefer.
JENNY MOSLEY 12-MAR-2002 01:01 PM
Hi ……., I hope some of my other answers regarding circle time and school councils are useful to you. I actually think that school councils themselves can be run in a very similar way to circle time; in that they should also have a structure that incorporates problem solving along with relationship building and celebration. I worry sometimes when I talk to the children who attend councils that they appear to find it very onerous and sometimes boring – I think that injecting excitement through the inclusion of some structured games and activities will maintain the vibrancy. Now to your actual question - I believe that circle time, if structured properly on a weekly basis, releases two fountains of issues. One stream of issues is to do with school management – such as dining halls and playgrounds. The other stream of issues is to do with relationship and behaviour issues and needs to be sorted out by the class themselves. I encourage teachers, at the end of a circle time, to record the issues with the class identifying which they need to deal with and the ones that their two representatives need to take to the school council. I think your concern is probably right – some teachers may not be running it in the way you like. If you look in the photocopiable book – we have invitations to circle time. I encourage classes to invite midday supervisors, parents…and headteachers. If you write circle time lesson plans you would know which ones would lend themselves to inviting others in – and which ones could easily be opened up to other people. I think if you were to encourage this approach it would give you some insights into what is happening. Equally the staff may themselves want some more support and confidence before they feel okay about asking people in. You could have a round in your staff meeting…of “One thing that is going well…and One thing I need some help with in my circle time”…again I wish you lots of luck.
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08-MAR-2002 06:06 PM
11. Hello Jenny - welcome to the hotseat. I am head of a Junior School in ….., and two years ago one of your colleagues, Maggie Grayson, worked with us to develop improved systems of circle time and behaviour management. Best thing we ever did - especially the whole-staff day later on when we looked at ways to improve our own esteem and well being so that we were at our best in working day to day with quite challenging children. We implemented Golden Time and have been consistent in our use of this strategy alongside the Golden Rules. We revisit regularly, review progress. Is Golden Time still the best reward system? Have you developed any other rewards?
JENNY MOSLEY 13-MAR-2002 09:55 AM
Hello ….. Thank you for your warm words – I have a great team of consultants and I know that they really make a difference. We invest a lot of time working with whole school staffs on raising their energy levels and developing their own self esteem first – otherwise it is almost impossible to help them respond positively to challenging pupils. In some schools we go to teachers have become so tired that their own behaviour is really very challenging. In these instances we are more likely to bring in yoga teachers and masseurs to help the staff first! Golden Time certainly reduces teachers stress levels as they do not have to use up all their energy by being cross or disappointed, they can just calmly put down a warning card….. I think some of your issues may be talked through in my response to Clare Fletcher about Golden Time. I think it is the core system – the very best system there is – but it needs constant overhauling and shining up to make it truly a sparkly golden. We constantly have review circles with pupils to have a round of ‘one thing that would make Golden Time better’ As I said to Clare – we need to bring in different people from the community to celebrate – Sixth Formers too can come in and work with the pupils – learning mentors can come in and play football during Golden Time, it needs to be the most exciting weekly community effort. Golden Time Certificates are the key as well as these constantly reinforce with parents the importance of the Golden Rules as these are printed on the certificates. Some schools move on to creating Golden Time clubs (once children get used to making wise choices). The only thing you have to watch there is that you don't put the children who lose Golden Time into a separate room – as this will become the Sin Club which some children with low self esteem subscribe to as it gives them a temporary notoriety. You need to make sure that the empty table with the sand timer is in the actual club that the child would have been if they hadn’t chosen to lose that privilege. Don’t forget that we try and help children back from the brink of losing it by talking through how they can use their Earning Back Contract – our job is to see if there are any children beyond this approach (very few)…there are some children who need some extra therapeutic support. Regarding your question if there are any other incentives – we do use a range of parallel incentive systems – these are best described in Turn Your School Round pages 28 to 32. Amongst these are the Happy Family Tree – it is one of my favorites. You can either use a real branch into a pot or cut out a tree and put it on a wall – the children receive golden leaves for any golden rules they have kept such as being gentle or honest…so many golden leaves can lead to a golden acorn and three golden acorns leads to a red squirrel…isn’t life abundant and amazing!!!
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08-MAR-2002 09:09 PM
12. Hi Jenny we use circle times and a weekly golden time, alongside other systems of rewards and time out. In the younger classes children lose a minute for wrong choices but a teacher in year 3 feels the children , as older pupils, should have a more stringent sanction and is currently using 10 minute blocks of time for each wrong choice. I am concerned but he is equally convinced the children are older and need a bigger sanction than the youngest. What are your feelings on this?
JENNY MOSLEY 13-MAR-2002 09:51 AM
Hello …… It is great that your school are using our weekly Golden Times…it is the pivot around which the whole model turns…but we have a lot of problems in trying to help schools to make sure it is truly ‘golden’…and not a rusty old time at the end of a Friday afternoon with a teacher who is marking their books having handed out some old bits of computer paper and jigsaw puzzles with bits missing!!! To make it truly golden – and therefore truly powerful – it does need to have different people in the room. We match up an older class with a younger class, invite older people in, invite parents in and generally make it Community Time. It therefore has very high profile…now to your question. With young children we will use the golden sun and the sad cloud with one minute sand timers (Page 53, 54 More Quality Circle Time). So, if a child breaks a rule we put the peg with their name on onto the middle warning sun (this is a sun with a cloud going over his face). The child then has to choose if they want to come back to the happy sun by keeping to the golden rules or, if they break another rule they will go to the sad cloud. At the older level, and this is very important, there has to be a yellow warning card placed beside the child (on the wall there will be an example warning card which above it says ‘Behaviour is your choice’ They then have the choice (if I find that children choose to break another rule regularly if often means that Golden Time is not exciting and motivational enough). It’s always very difficult when a member of staff wants to interpret things their own way. I think a compromise could be reached. For most children we do not leave the warning card down for very long – maybe till the coffee break or lunchtime…maybe in his case he could leave the warning card down for a shorter time and then they lose the usual five minutes. (The only time children bypass the system is when they lose their temper completely and no warning card works – this is the only time they would be sent to the head and the incident written into an incident book and read back and signed by the child and the adult who witnessed the incident – this is a more serious scenario and parents may well be contacted – and it would probably need to be accompanied by a chill-out session to help the child calm down – in these particular incidents the child loses 10 minutes Golden Time as that is seen to be fair by the other pupils – but the real consequences will be followed through from the incident book). Cor, it is very difficult explaining all this in email as it is very complicated…but I will keep trying! So, back to your teacher, perhaps you could show him my above ideas and see what he says, however if he is committed to his line of reaction, your best bet would be to help him make his Golden Time so absorbing and wonderful – that no children lose any – and then the 10 minute rule won’t matter!!! Just on another note – has your staff remembered that for all the children who do not lose any Golden Time – they will receive a Golden Time certificate sent through the post with their parents. This is the heart of the model as it means that all the middle plodder children are now celebrated. I hope all the above helps you – it is probably best explained in the 1996 QCT book…but I think it is brilliant that your staff is all ready using it and that you are debating some important issues. So well done to all of you.
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10-MAR-2002 03:59 PM
13. Hello Jenny. I am in my third year as a headteacher and I have seen many very positive changes and moves forward. As a school (180 rural village school)we have embraced the concept of Purposeful Talk - we are becoming a Community of Thinkers. I was interested to see your headline question about Circle time values being integrated into staff meetings. Some of the most successful staff meetings we have had have been centered around A B talk. So I try and include an element of purposeful talk in every meeting - however a member of staff said to me recently that I was over doing it. What do you think?
JENNY MOSLEY 3-MAR-2002 09:57 AM
Hello ….. To be very honest I don’t know about the approach called Purposeful Talk…however as you probably know my own model promotes the whole concept of teachers echoing the principles of circle time in their own staff meetings. I would imagine that your concept of purposeful talk is very similar to the heart of our circle time (which is the third step of circle time called Open Forum)…but once we have discussed core issues we go down one or two steps to get away from the impact or ‘heaviness’ of dealing with important issues. Would it be a good idea if you also balanced the seriousness of discussion with a slot for celebration i.e. a light hearted time when we celebrate what has gone well, what we have achieved this week, what made us laugh this week, what we are looking forward to when we leave the staff meeting. We have a range of what we call ‘rounds’ when we move away from serious issues to having a bit of fun. We also in some staff meetings have a success slot where individual teachers or midday supervisors or teaching assistants are asked to present 5 minutes at the end of the meeting on something that has gone well or a child who has made a breakthrough or a system that is working well. I don’t know the structure of your staff meetings…but I would imagine that the member of staff who felt you were “over egging the pudding” (do you remember that wonderful saying!!)…was probably needing something a bit light hearted to balance it all out – but this is just a guess – but my recommendation to all heads is to make sure that the staff meeting always ends on a positive note. If the last thing that staff hear is ‘one more thing we have got to do is….’ then everyone goes out on their knees and the energy is lost for tomorrow as you are not drawn to skip back in the next day!!!
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10-MAR-2002 05:51 PM
14. How would you suggest we develop circle time in a secondary EBD school Jenny? any ideas welcome
JENNY MOSLEY 13-MAR-2002 10:14 AM
Hello …..Your question is a nice simple one liner – the answer if probably five books! Interestingly I started my teaching career in an EBD school from 4 –….in the dim distant past! Circle time is only one of nine features of this model – although I call it The Quality Circle Time Model it includes recommendations for staff self esteem, the implementing of three pro-active systems, golden rules, rewards, sanctions, lunchtime policy and extra therapeutic and behaviour management support systems for pupils who cannot respond to the above. A lot of the work I do is just common sense and most schools are already, quite naturally, implementing some of what I suggest – but it is just pulling it together into a well organised consistent and structured systemic whole which is the hard, hard issue. I would definitely if I was a head teacher of special schools bring in a gifted facilitator to work on weekly circle times with the staff first – if staff feel valued and listened to they are more likely to want to try out circle time with the pupils. I would make sure that you have a very sound motivational rules, rewards and sanction systems, so that the staff have the energy to want to listen to pupils. If the above is not in place first, pupils will just sabotage the teachers attempts to get circle time going. Staff need training and support to take on group work of this nature…when our consultants go in we would, prior to the closure day for all staff, go in on a ordinary day to work with the Year 7 pupils and Year 8 pupils with teachers observing.
We recommend putting all the energy into the Year 7’s when they first come up as they will think that this is then the natural ethos and approach of the school and take to it more naturally. I have just myself been working in an EBD secondary school in Dublin for two days – the work with the pupils was the most motivating for the staff. In their particular case we brought the pupils back on an actual closure day. However the whole notion of EBD schools has its own problems for circle time – I believe that pupils learn more from each other than they do from the adults, therefore it is very important to have pupils within the circle who also have very good social skills. If the pupils only all have challenging ‘acting out‘ behaviour, then they will all model this behaviour. It is therefore a good idea to look carefully of the mix of social skills within the circle. It is also a good idea to sometimes combine two small classes as it can make it seem more special and exciting and you have more adults to help facilitate it. Your head of Sixth Form in a local secondary school may be able to suggest Sixth Formers who would come and attend your circles (many sixth formers want to study psychology and are really happy to join in these type of projects – and they can bring in with them some good social skills). I am only throwing ideas out to you – what you would need would be to look at an overview of the whole model and see where you would need to put your energy first. Organise some training and go slowly at it. I don’t ask a school to all adopt a whole school policy until there are sufficient enthusiastic teachers within the staff. You may need to get one or two teachers very excited about the idea, especially those who are respected by other members of staff, and then time table them to support other circles. It is a five year model and sometimes it is best to move slowly through with your Year 7’s as role models. In Circletime for EBD we interweave a lot of creative arts and meditation as they need different ways of expressing themselves and also to learn strategies for calming down. When I was working in this field I trained as a drama therapist as well as I was so fascinated with how unhappy trouble pupils were less tense and angry if they were given different ways of expressing themselves through drama and the arts. I have always woven these into the circle and my books have many ideas for keeping circletime exciting. If it was just about talking children would be turned off. I don’t think I will have helped you very much but hopefully I have given some ideas that you could think about. We have a range of books (but nothing replaces good training in schools!)…but one book that maybe very helpful, is a book called Effective IEP’s Through Circletime – practical solutions to writing IEP’s for children with emotional and behavioural difficulties’ – it is written by Margaret Goldthorpe who is one of my senior consultants…equally you may find a book I co-wrote with a former consultant called Quality Circle Time In Secondary School helpful as well. Good luck good luck good luck.
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11-MAR-2002 10:34 PM
15. Just want to say how useful circle time can be in reducing the isolation of our asylum seeker children where actions often speak louder than words .
JENNY MOSLEY 13-MAR-2002 10:22 AM
Thanks …… for your positive contribution - I really think it helps when other schools can tell people about their worthwhile experiences. Certainly, because circle time interweaves a range of physical games with miming actions, parachute work, puppets and drama - it has the potential to unite every child in a feeling of being part of the team. If teachers only used circle time for a chat - it excludes some children. This is why it is so important that a teacher has a kitbag of ideas beside her. We know a range of travellers’ children who have benefited - there are hearing impaired children who still join in and autistic children are fascinated by their peers ... so we have an empty chair and that child will sit outside with a support assistant and, when they feel ready, they will come into the circle and join in. The circle offers true inclusivity - I try and encourage pupil referral units to integrate their pupils into mainstream through the circle. It would be very helpful for that child if the teacher from the PRU came and worked with their mainstream teacher to co-facilitate the circle... a gentle way back into building relationships with the whole class. Thanks Trish for sparking off that train of thought!
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12-MAR-2002 08:54 PM
16. Sorry Jenny, third question! Only one year in my school and already used your methods successfully in previous schools. My staff "guard" their time and hoard it, they do not spend it generously on the school or the children. How can I get that exciting spark? It's my third headship and honestly I'm a nice person! PS Also just printed out this dialogue so can imbibe at leisure!
JENNY MOSLEY 15-MAR-2002 11:11 AM
………. don’t worry….here is the third answer coming up!!! (emailing responses is quite difficult as the issues are often multi-layered – but I will do the best I can!) I find that if I start with the self-esteem of the staff it creates that spark you are talking about. How about a staff circle meeting on ‘what would cheer us up!’ If you brought in, for some staff meetings, some complimentary therapists or creative workshop leaders and everyone has a laugh and fun together…they are more likely to want to pass that fun onto the children. Recently I have brought in a massage therapist to teach all the staff hand massage. We lit candles and played music – and they learnt about all the pressure points and how to get rid of headaches through massaging the webs between the fingers!!! Later we have used a dance and movement specialist to a background of exciting, blasting music…all these experiences create shared memories – that have occurred within the school. The school therefore becomes a place not just of work – but a place where we laugh together. I hope these ideas help you. I have many many more but sadly so few minutes to give the lengthy chats I would love to engage in.
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13-MAR-2002 09:40 PM
17. More comments than a question Jenny. The dialogue here is great almost another book I'd say thanks for your very good answers. We use Golden Time and it is mostly successful (only one member of staff who doesn't give wholeheartedly!) but the idea of widening the community is great - thanks. We also have a group hug every Friday morning where we share positive experiences in the week. I'd like to do a whole staff circletime but we can only get everyone together on development days as the rest of the staff are part time. What alternatives can you suggest.
JENNY MOSLEY 18 MARCH 2002 11.30 AM
Hi ….…You are right…I definitely feel another book coming on after warming up in the hot seat! Trying to get everyone together so that each person feels part of the vision is very hard. If you want the midday supervisors for example to come to a twi-light staff meeting…it is important that we offer a creche and pay them for their time. Certainly it is possible that they, with plenty of warning can make arrangements to come. Next week I will take all my admin. staff out for a staff meeting – we will go to a local ‘tea house’ and at £4.50 per head we will all have a fantastic tea and a sense of ‘occasion’. All my golden schools hold circle meetings with the midday supervisors and support staff for just half an hour twice a half term. Often it is not the head that takes the meeting – in fact it is better if a different teacher did it for a term as they can then get to know their colleagues and feed back to the main staff all their worries and ideas. In Turn Your School Round – mentioned in the staff action plan for self esteem was their determination to have coffee and cake for all staff on Fridays and a buffet lunch once a fortnight for all staff. It is great if everyone is invited…and if the staff are feeling very positive about their lunchtime policy, occasionally they are happy to take a lunchtime duty in order to free up the midday supervisor to come in and share the buffet lunch with the staff. I hope these ideas help – but sadly they cannot solve the problem of the fact it is so difficult to get everyone together often enough to make it feel relaxed and fun.
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17-MAR-2002 01:39 PM
18. Hello Jenny, I was a convert to circle time as a class teacher. As a Headteacher I introduced the whole staff to circle time for the children and this has had a positive effect on children's self esteem/ behaviour in school. Behaviour and personal development ( or lack of it) had been a key issue for our school in a November 99 Ofsted however a very recent Ofsted reported children's behavior and personal development as strengths of the school. I have been very interested in reading about the Whole School Model and circle time for staff and now feel energised to develop the whole school model further. No need to answer this question as you have already provided info in other answers above. I just wanted to record my interest and say THANK YOU.
JENNY 18-03-2002 3.30 PM
Hi ….
…I can’t bear not saying thank you as it really does help when people tell others about their successes. Just for your interest a few years ago I decided to do some research into the effectiveness of the QCT model. I sent a questionnaire to 300 primary schools who had received inset from us. We had 161 answers. I wanted to check how many schools had been inspected by OFSTED and whether the OFSTED had given positive feedback in the area of pupils spiritual, moral, social and cultural development and/or behaviour and discipline and/or relationships… and whether the headteacher perceived the QCT Model to have contributed to the successful OFSTED comments. 75% of the schools had been inspected – and 99% (119 schools) had received positive feedback in the aforesaid areas… 83% of the schools perceived the QCT model to have contributed to the schools success…. My worry is that OFSTED inspectors have had no training in the model and yet they assess the effectiveness of circle time. Unless you have training you would not know what a safe structured circle time looks like. I think some inspectors see a circle and think it must be being helpful – but there are some destructive and/or woolly circle times – there are some shame and blame circles with no element of shared success – there are some circle times which are just sitting around for a chat… if any of you headteachers have any ideas for how I can ask OFSTED to look for rigour and excellence in circle time please let me know! Meanwhile Pat, thanks again for the encouragement.
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19-MAR-2002 07:00 PM
19. Jenny a conversation I had today has set me thinking - it goes like this. "We don't believe in humiliating the children in front of others do we?" "No" "So isn't sitting waiting for your time up before Golden Time just the same as standing the 'naughty ' children up in assembly" Must admit I found this one difficult to answer so as I knew you were in the hotseat I thought I'd pass it on. Help what do I say?
JENNY 2 MARCH 2002 10.53 AM
….…In the early 70’s I also worked in a special school (for pupils with severe EBD) and we also had a weekly circle meeting with a psychiatrist as a facilitator…and it was enormously helpful. From the list you have given me of circle meetings they engage in – I would say that you have fantastic systems to support the mental health of the staff. However, it is all groupwork that you are offering…and some people find it painful to be honest in front of others. When you are working with challenging children, your self esteem can diminish. These children are able to spot our weaknesses and feed them back to us publicly and humiliatingly. Once self esteem becomes low adults develop corresponding behaviour – low self esteem means that you doubt yourself, rarely ask for help, defend against admitting the truth, deny issues to yourself…and blame others. It is a strange and complex condition. Sometimes people feel so bad about themselves they put on a mask that everything is fine and they ride roughshod over other peoples feelings…but if you feel good enough about yourself you should never need to put anyone else down. So as head it means that you personally would need to have weekly mentoring or supervision to keep your spirits up and to help you not take anything personally. The staff could also do with some one to one work with a trusted mentor. In industry they have one to one success coaching which is very useful. You could draft in someone from the LEA or you could teach your whole staff how to do peer counselling properly…or you could put some funds over to bringing in an outside facilitator; but that could represent a large part of the budget. So somehow we have to build the self esteem sufficiently of staff so that they can then accept and work on their own needs. Sometimes it helps to think of the staff like hurt children…sometimes, after they have had lots of support they need to take responsibility for their own personal growth. It is a tough issue…and the one who needs most support is the head teacher. Good luck, good luck. Jenny
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19 MARCH 2002- 10.55 AM
20. Dear Jenny I have read with interest most of the discussion so far. I have recently become a headteacher of a relatively traditional "successful" secondary school(NOR 1000). I find that the school has been run autocratically with a successful but very rigid Positive Discipline system in place. A vociferous minority of middle managers subscribe to the 'hang em' brigade and many date back to the grammar school days. This is making the issue of inclusion a difficult one to crack on occasions. Given that I am completely in tune with the principles of your circle time work( as I understand them)but with no personal experience, where would I start, bearing in mind the background of the school? Do you have any secondary contacts who have faced a similar situation? Which books, training opportunities would be useful to us in planning and delivering this transformation? Help!!
JENNY 22 MARCH –2002-10.52 AM
….….Phew !…over the years I have spent some extraordinarily difficult and challenging training days with similar staff to the ones you describe. I have a team of consultants who work with me – and my directive to them all – is that whenever we are asked to do secondary training for a whole staff they must bring in a circle of pupils on the closure day. We have been doing this for years now and it is a very powerful tool. You bring back a large tutor group of Year 7 pupils who have never done circle time before – tutor groups are truly inclusive of children who have a range of needs and strengths. Cynical, rigid staff rarely fail to be moved by observing young people. For one hour, often the first in their whole career, they have to sit outside the circle and observe children without speaking…what they see and hear is the depth of children’s wisdom and generosity of spirit – and it rarely fails to move them. Once they have connected with their original vision of why they were drawn into teaching in the first place – they become much easier to work with. More open and responsive. So a typical training day would be a session before coffee on the vision and values of a school, after coffee a circle of pupils…and once mellowed the afternoon session can focus on ways forward that the school could take to put these values into action. One day’s training is not enough – it is a great way of shaking people up, encouraging debate and opening up hopes and dreams…but it needs to be followed through with careful consultancy. We have a range of secondary schools who we have worked successfully with – but the whole secondary system is flawed – and the issue of whether the values and practices stay embedded is all to do with staff support, turnover and induction. As you have been specific in your request for training opportunities I can be specific in my answers ! I would suggest you negotiate a training package with us (our website is linked to this one with all the contact details) you would need to talk to the project director, Ginny Sutton. I would also suggest that once you have organised the training, you send a key member of staff on our secondary Train the Trainers Accredited week course. This is expensive but a very good investment. It is taking place in September and will draw together secondary school staff who are currently engaging in excellent practice within our model. At a ‘lessor level’ there are two books that are available Quality Circle Time in the Secondary School and Important Issues in the Secondary School…so, I hope this helps…but my heart is with you on this issue of the management of change with these particular people – you need to reconnect them to a moral vision, so good luck good luck (I would also refer you to a response I made on the 11th March to Fiona – currently a new head of a large secondary school. Jenny
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19-MAR-2002 07:00 PM
21.Jenny a conversation I had today has set me thinking - it goes like this. "We don't believe in humiliating the children in front of others do we?" "No" "So isn't sitting waiting for your time up before Golden Time just the same as standing the 'naughty ' children up in assembly" Must admit I found this one difficult to answer so as I knew you were in the hotseat I thought I'd pass it on. Help what do I say?
JENNY 22 MAR 2002 11.35 AM
….…I love the dialogue and debate that is going on in your staff room…but I can respond with confidence !!! An essential feature of the model is that we do a visual warning before a child loses five minutes of Golden Time. The younger children have a golden sun, followed by a golden sun with a cloud going over his face, followed by a sad cloud. When a child breaks a golden rule their little peg from the golden sun is put on the warning cloud – with the question – do you want to come back to the Golden Rules by stopping that kicking – or do you want to break another Golden Rule and go to the sad cloud, which will mean that you will lose one minute of Golden Time. With older children the yellow warning card is on the wall with a statement above that says “behaviour is your choice” Then an arrow goes from one side of the warning to a bubble that says “break another rule and you lose five minutes Golden Time” … and the other arrow says “come back to the Golden Rules and we will celebrate in Golden Time”. What I am trying to get at, clumsily, is that children must learn that behaviour is their choice. The whole model concentrates on helping children move towards inner locus of control – where they learn to take responsibility for their actions and the consequences of the actions. When they have lost five minutes or one minute and are looking at a sandtimer they will be very clear, if the visual warnings are properly carried out, that they chose that consequence. They are reflecting on their behaviour – they are reflecting on the fact that they have lost a part of their privilege – and that this was their choice. So, I believe that punishments uphold the self esteem of children because it gives them safe boundaries and shows them that adults care enough about them to put the consequences into action. If there was no visual warning I would not be so confident. If there is only verbal warning, given that one in five children have a high level of chaos in their minds, it is highly likely they did not hear the verbal warning…and then, yes, life would seem unfair. But with the above system it is explicit, clear, visual and therefore they chose the consequence. Also they never lose all of it – if they have blown it all on Monday – they get the opportunity to use the Earning Back Contract (in the ‘Photocopiable Materials for use with the Jenny Mosley Circle Time Model’ Page 4. ) So they have that choice also…if a child is unable to work within this system – it may well be that the level of inner chaos is so high that they have moved into the ‘child beyond category’ and need to work on Tiny Achievable Tickable Targets (page 30 – 45) in the same book. Wow.. I hope all this helps. Good luck with Deepening the Debate !!! Jenny
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20-MAR-2002 05:06 PM
22. Jenny - many thanks for your participation. Although I haven't been actively asking, like many others I have been following the debate with great interest. I have tried to print the questions and answers out to share with staff - a marvellous addition to PSHE resources / and staff development. Your time with the community very much appreciated - hope the facilitiators will consider inviting you again!
JENNY 22 MARCH 2002 11.13 AM
….…I can’t resist responding to appreciation and enthusiasm – it just feels so good! Certainly we have free resources as well that we offer from our office that you are most welcome to have for your staff (any head teacher from Talking Heads is welcome to contact my office for the same resources). We have a slim booklet called Quality Circle Time – the Heart of the Curriculum which evolved from a conference opened by David Puttnam – and is a brave attempt to synthesize the model succinctly! The white video has snapshots from a range of television programmes about our work – and shows circle times with different ages of children in different schools and a lovely six minute slot on how children and teachers turned their school round through using our Playground Friends and Friendship Stop scheme…so do contact the office and they will send them out to you. Did you have luck printing out the questions and answers as I am sure that Gill Roberts will help if they don’t flow smoothly ! Thanks again Jenny
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22 MAR-2003-3.24PM
23. “Is a progression for circle time in existence for foundation stage through to year 6? Thanks for your help “
JENNY MOSLEY 24 MAR – 002 – 11.48 AM
…..…as politicians say…”it is an interesting question !!” There is a lot of debate as to whether this is a sound psychological move or not. We don’t advocate a planned progression for all the key stages – on the basis that children are at so many different emotional levels of maturity. There are so many issues that crop up for different classes to do with their own team building – and, ideally circle time should be a vibrant process reflecting the needs of the class and school. We teach a five step structure – on each step you can put different activities that are suitable for the needs of the class. We also have a suggestion box in each class, where children can anonymously put in any questions or worries. We teach teachers to build these into their PSE circle times through a series of games and metaphor and structured activities. Having said that we do provide, through our books, circle times around themes e.g. in Quality Circle Time we have a series of lesson plans around the theme of – Getting To Know You, Feelings, Listening and Concentrating, Kindness, Friendship, Solving Problems, Resolving Conflict, Achieving Changes, etc…and yet any of these themes may need to be revisited by classes at any stage depending on how their relationships are maturing and the problems they are facing. I think the issue is to help teachers become confident in what a good circle time looks like – it has five steps, it is pacey, it incorporates creative structures, it has set ground rules and a particular positive approach. Once the teachers are confident in this then they are able to structure plans which are just right for the class. Having said all this, we are just about to publish a book called Stepping Stones to Success – which is a two year planned progression of circle time for the foundation stage. Maybe, this is the way we will go – but it is an issue for debate and real careful thought as I prefer confident teachers able to respond to topics etc. that are naturally part of &lsq
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